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Why call Imperial Units the American system? It’s the British Empire’s fault. And the UK still uses it. Like so much they say weird ass shit like “I weigh 12 stones.”
The UK is metrifing. But it takes time to make these shifts. Most hospitals will ask for weight in kg but usually have a calculator available. Charts and information leaflets have kg. Lift weight limits are in kg (usually then represend by people) Baby’s weight is given in grams but usually the next question is what’s that in old money. So the systems are all in kg but mentally we are in stones.
Doesnt the UK use a mix of both? Same as Canada?
US Customary Units and Imperial Units are not 100% the same, so three former the American system makes sense.
My favourite part of the metric system is that with it’s water weight being 1-1 with volume; measuring liquids is super easy with a scale.
Liquids as in water specifically and not other liquids.
Nah, it’s still good for others if you know the relative density.
Vodka for example, at roughly 0.9x works. Most other liquids are somewhere just above 1 so it is still pretty accurate.
It still works fine for most liquids used for cooking and baking.
If 20 % error is okay, sure. And yes, with cooking it does not really matter. But simply using mass instead of volume fixes this anyway and is more convenient.
cooking is an art. but baking is a science, 20% off is FAR too off point
Getting these two after eachother is fate
When I learned the consistency (synergy?) between metric measures, I thought that was so amazing.
In the olden days sciencey types and engineers kept fact books listing such relations. They had a specific name that escapes me.
Before handheld calculators, they also kept books of pre-calculated mathematical operations, so they were used to having numbers books around.
“Better still learn mental math, you won’t always have an answer book in your pocket!” — 1500’s teachers
In the olden days sciencey types and engineers kept fact books listing such relations. They had a specific name that escapes me.
Likely a “CRC”: CRC Standard Mathematical Tables, which is probably the same book as the pre-calculated mathematical operations you mentioned. It has a lot of good mathematical stuff in it such as basic formulas, trig functions, log tables, integral and differential functions, and formulas up through around Fourier analysis.
If we were doing that thought exercise where you can take a “go bag” back in time to build science up more quickly, a CRC and a slide rule would probably be in mine. I’d probably throw in a prism and as compact of a microscope that uses a mirror as a light source as I could get away with; both for showing small stuff living in water and for showing what couldn’t be manufactured yet (depending on when I went back). I wouldn’t waste space in the bag for anything dealing with the imperial system.
a gallon of water boils in 10 minutes on a whirlpool electric range in turbo mode
Wild Thing by Josh Bazell, in case anyone was wondering what book that is.
Found out recently that a fluid ounce of water doesn’t weigh an ounce, and that makes me mad
A pints a pound
I think that’s all we got
Unfortunately, due to inflation, a pint is usually minimum £5, if you’re in London then expect it to be heavier.
i hear pints in london are like 20p if you distract the bartender and run out the back
This is how I found out that Americans don’t even have full pints.
The UK doesn’t want to give up pints of beer because they’re bigger than a half liter.
American ones are smaller.
Just get me a liter’o’cola or there will be hell to pay!
Not enough for me. One child size please.
Funny how the French got the calculations wrong for the entire basis of metric though.
It is incredibly hard to define something without a certain degree of error to it, or rather impossible.The degree of error could be reduced since then, thanks to scienitific progress.
The French" did not “get the calculations wrong”, it was the best that was possible back in the day. Nowadays the definition of the meter is dematerialised and the yard is defined as a conversion factor of the meter.
I mean, that’s saying they got it wrong but it was understandable. I just find it mildly amusing is all.
No, it doesn’t. Every measurement has error. The question is how big. It was minor already back then, but it could be further reduced and with the switch to dematerialised standards that are only possible with modern technology it is reduced even further, but it does have still an error, of course.
By your logic, that’s saying they still get it wrong but it is understandable because everyone will get everything forever wrong. I just find it mildly amusing is all.
Violet
Huh. I must have missed this book in A Series of Unfortunate Events.
How unfortunate
Did she undelete her account?
which one are you referring to?
Violet. She used to hornypost
yeah, i meant which of her accounts lol.
One mole of hydrogen-1 isn’t 1 gram because of the binding energy of protons and neutrons. One mole of hydrogen-1 is about 1.008g
That’s a bakers mole.
You know that water being exactly 1kg and 1l is specific to one pressure and temperature combination?
Mole is a number of particles, not a volume. A mole of hydrogen-1 will always have the same mass regardless of temperature or pressure
The point is that you do not have that precision. But it absolutely is good enough for pretty much everything. A 0.8 % error is often well below measurement error. Like in any mass balance in a chemical system, say a refinery or whatever. You can ignore argon and all other gases except N2 and O2 in air for the same reason in almost every application.
But even if we apply the same logic, 1.008 is “incorrec” too, it is 1.00794.
And that is incorrect too, not because of higher precision, but because of binding energy. Two separate hydrogen atoms (2 H) have slightly more mass than one hydrogen molecule (H₂) because forming the H–H chemical bond releases energy, reducing the system’s mass according via E= m*c² That extends to every single compound. They all have different atomic masses in them.
I think the point is made.
This post was about definitions in the metric system, so while 1 mole of hydrogen being 1 gram is pretty close, it isn’t and isn’t defined to be
6.022x10^23 particles if I remember correctly.
Avogardo‘s number (Not Avocado‘s number as I wrote in my high school chemistry exam)
True except for calorie. Metric typically uses Joules, which is good because it’s just the product of force (N) and distance units (m), instead of requiring a conversion factor.
If by “metric system,” you mean SI. But then, SI uses m3 for volume, not litres. The author didn’t specify which metric system, so this could be valid.
1m3 = 1 kiloliter so maybe they use both
We need to go deeper, america needs to come up with new time measurements too. Everything must go!
Metric is great for scientists in a lab with equipment to measure things.
Imperial was created during a time when peasants in the middle of nowhere needed to measure something “close enough” to trade with others, even without tools or measuring equipment, which was only owned by scribes and other members of the nobility.
This is why all imperial length measurements relate to parts of the body and why all volume and weight measurements relate to containers that were commonly used to store the thing you’re measuring (a bushel of grain, for example).
Also, a foot can be divided equally into 2, 3, 4, or 6 equally-sized pieces without resorting to estimation or irrational numbers; a meter cannot.
The US agreed to switch to the metric system centuries ago, but the ship carrying the official units sank on the way over.
Metric is great for scientists in a lab with equipment to measure things.
Metric is just as great for everyday life as imperial units.
Also, a foot can be divided equally into 2, 3, 4, or 6 equally-sized pieces without resorting to estimation or irrational numbers; a meter cannot.
While I agree in principle, I also enjoy the chaos that imperial system causes when you try adding up 1 1/8 inches + 5 27/32 inches + 7 3/16 inches instead of just using decimal numbers.
Edited for clarity
Metric is just as great for everyday life as imperial units.
This is what the metricians say to feel better about themselves, but they never mean it.
“Oh yes, I’ll have a 236.588 milliliters of tea, thank you for offering”
“The kids are out playing in the back 0.914 meters”
“Doctor, I think I broke my left 30.48 centimeters”
Do you see how silly you would sound if you didn’t use imperial?
I was co confused until I got the joke lol
1 1/8 inches + 5 27/32 inches + 7 3/16 inches
1/8 = 4/32 3/16 = 6/32 4 + 6 + 27 = 37 37/32 = 1 5/32 1 + 5 + 7 + 1 = 14 Total: 14 5/32I wouldn’t call it chaos, it’s a straightforward algorithm:
- Identify the largest denominator
- Multiply each other fraction by [largest denominator divided by current fraction’s denominator] (e.g. 32/8 = 4, so 1/8 * 4/4 = 4/32)
- Determine the sum of every numerator
- Divide and simplify the number if necessary
- Determine the sum of the integers, including any integers added in the previous step
This works for every measurement because the denominator is always a power of 2.
With that said I absolutely prefer metric.
In practice you would just use decimal inches. Doesn’t really make it better but you can machine something without ever seeing a fraction if you want to since everything will be in thousandths of an inch.
Decimal inches?
most electronics breadboards and the pins from (non-tiny) microchips / ICs are spaced at 2.54mm apart, which i eventually realised is a tenth of an inch.
hey none of that mathematics witchery here dude. we guesstimate or we do nothing (and i’m too tired to guess)
Maybe in your particular industry, but I reckon most people using imperial units aren’t using measuring devices with decimal inches or needing the precision of .0001"
If someone were adding those figures they would switch to decimal. I built furniture for 2 years, 64ths are almost never used over thousands of an inch. If you need to be finer than 32nds you use thou. And that pretty much only for wood. Machine shop I worked in used thou exclusively.
thousands of an inch
Which is called a “mil”, a name that has never caused confusion
Is it really? That’s really interesting, and would cause a lot of confusion in metric-English countries where ‘mil’ is pejoratively used in speech to either mean ‘millimetre’ or ‘millilitre’ depending on context.
It causes confusion in the US too, because, despite popular misconceptions, we do in fact use both systems.
pejoratively ≠ casually
While in theory it is like that, I as a non english speaker have come across people trying to add up inch fractions more time than I remember.
Wheeeeeeee fractions!
But after multiplying, 8 + 54 + 3 over 64 is just clean fun, you end up with 14 1/64 inches and wanna die because you accidentally cut the material at 14 inches and now your whole day is ruined.
I’m using some pvc to build a prototype and the percentage of it that turns to microplastic so I can get precise sizing is terrifying. But I’ma use the chop saw we got instead of buying new, larger pvc scissors
That’s easy, 14 5/32
(Yes, I did it in my head. Yes, I am chaos)
Thank you, Chaos :)
a murmur rises from the deep…
“you’re welcome”
Having done my share of automotive and carpentry work, I’ve never in my life had to go down to 64ths. 32nds is the smallest fraction I’ve ever had to use and the amount of times I’ve had to get that small could probably be counted on one hand.
Are you saying adding 8ths, 16ths and 32nds is trivial and having 64th in my example made it unrealistic?
I’m saying that if you knew what you were talking about you wouldn’t be working in 64ths in the first place. You picked 64ths because “hurr sure Americans dumb” and you know it.
I picked 64 because I don’t use imperial and I have no sense of scalw what makes sense as a fraction unit. A bit paranoid, aren’t you?
I picked 64 because I don’t use imperial and I have no sense of scalw what makes sense as a fraction unit.
Exactly
A bit paranoid, aren’t you?
Nope, just sick of arrogant Europeans acting like they’re experts on shit they don’t have the first clue about.
You come to a thread where people throw light hearted banter about each others’ measuring systems and you feel attacked by arrogant europeans. Sounds a lot like paranoia. Chill.
In US machine shops if they’re getting down to that level of measurement, they’ll switch over to milli-inches.
Yes, milli-inches are an actual unit in use.
Why don’t they use 1024ths? Gotta commit to the bit if you wanna be taken seriously.
Yes, machine shop use thousandths, but 99.9% of the population will never do that.
Chaos? Just normalize to a denominator of 32 and it’s simple
A denominator of 1 makes it even simpler
Or normalize to something sane and use mm
Metric allows you to convert between length volume and mass in your head. Someone smarter than me could probably take a reasonable estimate of how long a kettle will take to boil just by knowing it’s wattage and estimating its volume.
You’re right that “pounds” may have e been a practical measurement back when people didn’t have calibrated and everyone’s hand weighed a pound. However, that advantage ceased once everyone standardised those measurements.
A metre is equally divisible by 50, 25, 20, 10, 5, and 2. There arr numerous advantages to a base 10 system.
The last bit of rationalizing is hilarious. It’s like you don’t even understand numbers or math, well what am I saying, you’re an American
We can figure out what 70% of a meter is.
Good luck with your peasant system
Its crazy how many people upvoted this comment. Didn’t realize there was so much anti-american sentiment on this platform. I get the government is shit, but insulting the general population just kinda makes you out as an ass.
It’s not anti-American sentiment, it’s anti-anti-intellectualism.
Stay in school.
well what am I saying, you’re an American
This you?
“Stay in school”, you’re such an ass lol
I got it, it hurts to have to reflect on how completely scientifically illterate Americans are as a whole. Almost joyful in their vapid arrogance
It’s a completely fair dunk. Person shows up to lecture and act like measuring things with thumbs and arms is somehow sane, and expect to receive no mockery? Lol
Anti-intellectual people do not deserve much respect and I’m not sorry.
Dehumanizing an entire populace because of an opinion you have about a measuring system doesn’t make you better than them, it makes you a bigoted asshole.
Are you going to say the same about your ancestors who also measured things with cubits, spans, and paces? How up your own ass do you have to be to judge individuals for a culture of measuring things? It literally doesn’t effect you at all if I grew up measuring things in yards and feet, as if I had a choice in the matter.
The United States of America is metric where it counts. All military, all scientific, all medical fields measure in metric. We are all taught how to use metric in school, and then we are introduced to the actual physical world where 200 years of infrastructure was built in Imperial. The system works, we don’t need to change it, it would be nothing more than vanity to do so. “Arrogance” is not fitting here unless you apply it to your own argument.
“Decimalized currency is great for all those labcoats, but for us regular ol’ normal folk, it’s much easier to use real, easily divisible livres, which can be divided into 20 sous and subsequently into 12 deniers.”
“In fact, imperial is so great because duodecimal invites so much divisibility! What’s that? You’re saying it goes 12 –> 3 –> 1760 for length, 16 –> 2000 for units of mass, that units of volume are a bastardized base-2 system where there isn’t even a consistent multiple between units, and that pounds and short tons aren’t cleanly divisible by 3? And that not a single unit of volume is divisible by 3 unless you bring it down to the level of teaspoons?”
“‘Why not just switch to a fully duodecimal system if divisibility is so important to you’, you ask? Well fuck you, a foot is about as long specifically as my forearm, and there’s no way my poor, emaciated monkey brain would ever have found something similar to latch onto with SI units. Those people living in most of the rest of the world probably just carry meter sticks around up their asses. ‘How many square inches is a 30 x 30-foot room?’, you ask? Well fuck you again.”
I hate imperial. But I do think it would be neat if we had also changed our common numeral system to base 12 when making metric. Dividing by 3 and 4 is WAY more common than dividing by 5.
But no way that would happen unless we had a massive linguistic shift occur as well. Base 10 is too rooted in our culture.
But then my crusade for metric time would seem silly
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
I thought I was clowning on a tired Gish gallop of flimsy, ad hoc justifications for imperial/US customary.Any concerns over anything I said in particular?Edit: He can’t keep getting away with it!
No… I was just joking
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/jesse-what-the-fuck-are-you-talking-about
Oooh. I misread that as “Jesus”. LMAO
The best part is that Walter White, as a science teacher, would probably agree.
'How many square inches is a
30 x30-foot diameter room?Ftfy
Every country used a system based off body parts or similarly easy-to-measure parts. When the metric system was invented, most of them switched because it was the logic thing to do. Some just decided that the dumb system was better who knows why.
Spain adopted the metric system in 1852 and by the time, they weren’t the most advanced country.
Spain adopted the metric system in 1852 and by the time, they weren’t the most advanced country
perhaps when the u.s. finally reaches the level of 1852 spain, americans will switch too.
Chat when was the siesta invented
What do you mean you can not divide a meter without estimations or irrational numbers? Do you mean fractions or decimal? 1m/3=3.33… dm ( repeating, which means it is a rational fraction)
Anyone who thinks you can divide one number by another and get an irrational number… doesn’t know what irrational means.
Irrational numbers are ones with the square root of negative 1 as a factor, right?
irrational numbers are numbers which are not a ratio of integers
complex numbers, often called “imaginary” numbers, are ones with components of unit i =√-1
complex numbers, often called “imaginary” numbers,
Aside: mostly, but complex numbers are an addition of both a real number and an imaginary number: a + bi. It just happens that a can be 0, making it a strictly irrational number when b ≠ 0.
Thus, the imaginary numbers are a strict subset of the complex numbers.
Irrational numbers don’t have a predictable pattern to them. Think pi.
Also, US Customary units share many of the same terms as Imperial, but the actual quantities differ.
Even more fun is that US customary units are explicitly defined by their metric equivalents. So the US is using metric whether they like it or not, they just slap pointless conversion factors on top.
And it’s been this way since 1893. The US customary system has been sneaky metric that whole time.
That’s why duodecimal is superior to decimal.
Instead of converting to metric, we should convert our entire numerical system to be base 12.
What? Of course you ca split a METER into smaller pieces.
500, 330, 250 and 115mm
Easy as a pie.
And no one is its right mind is actually using thirds. There is no way you can actually use thirds in anything but as an approximation
In imperial, pounds can be either a mass or a force, or context dependent, or a slug might be the unit for mass derived from the pound force. The foot pound force is a unit for energy.
Honestly the system shouldn’t exist.
